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lillian, to me the important thing is to understand the process and the building sequence. the various references give you different methods to accomplish the process, usually keeping the sequence very similar.

but there is no one "right way", as i am sure you have realized after following the multitude of contradictory threads that appear here, and on any of the fora devoted to this craft. whilst one would hope that all the roads lead to rome, but some i think are just as or more likey to send you to the docklands of naples, the mountains of sicily or the end of calabria.

it seems you have a fair range of tooling available to you, and have perused the references fairly completely. now it is time to look at tour tooling, skill set, and decide which methods you will feel most comfortable with. i can assure you that if you continue on to your second, and nth, you will change and adapt your methods to suit you, and what you feel comfortable with.

if you are after a single sheet sequence reference i can try to email you a copy of the one which appeared many years ago in lmi's catalogue/reference book. it is very clear and concise and will serve to keep you on course.

and as others have said, there is a wealth of information available here.

Lillian, it's all here on the forum if you ask...I've made far more progress from reading first that "other" forum and now just stick to this one and the stellar resources it offers! I will say that I just had to take the C&N book and just dive in back in the beginning...used leftover mahogany and walnut from furniture projects, bought a f/b and bridge blank and just went at it...still have that guitar! I'd lend you my 3x5 cards, but John Mayes has them...I think he patterned his DVD's (which really are excellent) off of them!   

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

I really agree with Jim, Shane, and Michael. I have a stack of books and articles, DVD's, the forum, etc. I love research. I study all the sources for the different approaches to different parts of the build and select what I understand and seems logical to me. I gathered all that and composed my own step-by-step guide with references to the text from which it came so I can look back for more detail when needed. I printed out my guide, and follow it, making marginal notes of changes, then reprint the improved version. I plan to do this each time I build.

Use affordable wood on the first one and treat the build as a learning experience. It will exceed your expectations.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

I cannot speak to the Cumpiano books, or Robbie's DVDs, but I have the John Mayes series of DVDs and, for me, they have been terrific. My first guitar was built from a kit, with a well-respected teacher...but that time is past, and John's DVDs both reinforce and embellish what I learned. I love'em.

For example, I bent my first sides on a hot pipe (no bender), but I have now bent probably 10-12 sides using John's DVDs as the model and have had no issues whatsoever. I certainly agree that a DVD is not the one method that everyone learns best by...but the "amateurish" comment doesn't fit my perception. Not at all.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Being in the north with no one around to give me guidance I started with reading every book I could find (I ordered them through the library rather than buying) I then bought a plan of the guitar I wanted to build, a size 5, and then with help from the internet I got right into it. I highly recomend for your first build to follow a tried and true model and plans rather than to try to experiement. A lot of people get caught up in trying to come up with a perfect design and inovation and never get around to actually building. Today there are great resources available on line so use those. Some of the best resources as mentioned already are the step by step instructions found on line.

I'd just say a couple of things:
1)It's the end, not the means.
2) If you ask 25 luthiers for the best way to do something, you'll get at least 50 answers.

In terms of the structure and acoustics, most guitars are complete systems. Things like the top thickness, bracing sizes and profiles, and so on, all work together to give a certain result. Every maker works this stuff out to suit themself or their customers. So; whatever design you settle on, stay with that, at least until you've built a few and understand how they work a bit better.

Everybody works differently, has different skills and tools, and thinks in their own way. Some people just HATE routers ('handfuls of screaming emergency') and others can't sharpen a chisel to save their soul. Use the books to get an idea of how a guitar goes together, and then figure out the most natural way for you to make the parts and assemble them. There really is no single 'right' way to do anything, although there are some ways that give better results than others.

It's awfully easy to get hung up on details in this: and lose sight of the big picture. In fact, it's almost impossible not to at first, when the instrument seems like nothing more than a mass of details in formation. After you've made a few you'll find that you've got the whole thing in your head more firmly, and then you'll start to see the details for what they are.

Oh yeah: and NOBODY makes just one.

Lillian,

You can't really go wrong with any of the advice that has been given here. I wish you luck as you begin a very rewarding and satisfying journey.
Thanks to all those who have mentioned my DVD's as a source of reference. I am honored.

Happy Building!

Lillian,

Read everything you can get your hands on, analyze what makes sense and why, investigate what does not make sense and why. Keep a journal while you work. make entries every day of every step as you build, success and why, failures and why, problems encountered and the resolutions you took to resolve the the problems. Keep an aux. journal handy for notes you want to keep form this forum and others. No one has the only magic process. There are thing to take from each builder and digest and refine in to your own way of doing things.

There are only a few given laws that must be followed every thing else is just different directions to get to a given product.

Some know me here as the the guy that tells everyone "KEEP A BUILD JOURNAL" it will become one of your most used tools. I have 32 scratch builds under my belt and I have 28 spiral note books filled with trials and tribulations. Each tells it s own story of how I have gotten to where I am now. and each helps point the way to where I want to go tomorrow.MichaelP39080.6836111111

Lillian, I know this must be becoming overwhelming.

Hey, it you don't mind the trip, you can come up to my place any most evening or we could set up a time to just talk shop.

You live in Tacoma right? Well, I know it's a ways, but only about 2-1/2 hours drive to my place.Rod True39080.695162037

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

[QUOTE=MichaelP] Lillian,

Some know me here as the the guy that tells everyone "KEEP A BUILD JOURNAL" it will become one of your most used tools. [/QUOTE]

This is great advice to anyone. I bought a large hardcover book with blank lined pages and use it to assist in documenting each build. Since I only build a few each year it really helps to keep me on track and moving forward. I wish I had started it with my first. Things like plate thickness can be precicely mapped as well as brace dimensions. General thoughts and perceptions noted along the way can be incredibly helpful as time passes as well.RCoates39080.7142708333

Rod, thank you for the offer. I'll need to get my passport though. We have been talking about seeing Vancouver, but haven't made it yet. Now I have one more reason to get our passports done. And, having come out of southern New Mexico, its a given that it takes 3 hours to get any where. Some nights it takes 3 hours just to do a 45 minute commute.       The drive would be nice.

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Aoibeann

one of the things i mentioned in my earlier post was that you need to decide on a method and sequence of work which suits you, and your available time, resources, etc.

for example, in the posts above there are several suggestions by others regarding sequence that i do not follow, namely to join the plates first. unlike them, when building on a part time basis (which in effect i do since most of my time is devoted to repair work) i think it best not to join and brace the plates until the rim is complete. think of how many people have posted about a plate changing shape when left on the shelf for a while after being joined. in fact, i do actually sork on the rim and the plates concurrently, but bending and trimming to length is always my first activity.

some prefer to build the neck first, then the box. you have to work out what seems best for you, try it, then amend as necessary to reflect your experience.

i strongly endorse the many suggestions above to keep a build journal, a separate notebook for each build. record not only when and what you did, but those aspects/methods which worked well for you, and those that didn't, and why. then base on the experience, amend, alter, throw out. if you have the facility, also photograph each stage/step.

and measuring twice is not sufficient. do it three times, and hope that two come out in the same place.    for very critical measurements, whenever practicable i use a marking knife; gives a much more definitve mark than even the sharpest pencil.

but as has been said to others in many threads, just dig in and do it. sure, you will probably make mistakes, and you've seen we all do, but most of them are very fixable.

but most importantly, have fun!!!!

Lillian,

I am just completing my second build. I am also an inveterate researcher. I bought most of the books, and started with a basic LMI kit- just flat boards. I ended up relying on C&N, Robbie O'Brien's DVD, and searches on this and "the other" forum. I would recommend that you follow a plan for the first guitar. Research what type and size you want, and get a plan for it. GAL sells a lot of them at a reasonable cost. I started with a classical, because it was the cheapest kit, and I modified it to include a detachable neck, so the build sequence is much like a steelstring, but the bracing and top/back thicknesses are a bit lighter, as well as the basic shape. Sounds good to me so far.

The second is a steelstring OM for my son. About 90% done so far, just finished the bridge today, finish only needs one more coat. Don't worry about tap tuning or any of that on the first builds. Just get the thicknesses as shown on the plan. But be sure to tap and listen as you build, so you get the experience of what to listen for.

Oh, and I can't stop without praising Kathy M's website. It's a treasure, and you should follow through her builds several times- at least I did, it gave images to go with all the terms and steps in the books.

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Gene

Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason- Mark Twain

Lillian,
I think Alan Carruth had the best advice. And it is clear that you have already gotten your 50 different answers here

Yes, it is easy to get hung up in the details, but get the general process down and don't worry too much about them. If you concentrate on the general process, it matters not whose detail you use here and there, so long as it is something you can understand and have the capability to do.

When I started, I only had the little paperback book "Classic Guitar Maker's Guide" by H. E. Brown. And I wanted to build a steel string. Fortunately the last two pages (pages 43 and 44) had the instructions for that. That was 1967 and the book had just been printed. There were very few details, but just a simple process. It got me through. I had just a few hand tools and no jigs or fixtures. The only one I made was a mold for bending the sides. I had nobody to ask about anything. The guitar came out fine and I still have it.

Things today are a far cry from that. There is so much information, much of it seemingly contradictory, that it is easy to get caught up in it and worry about how best to do something. Try to put that all aside and just get going. It will work out fine. And if you do something differently than some might suggest, don't even begin to worry about it. It really does not matter. Just do what you feel comfortable with and keep moving.

Grant

I am finishing my first build right now and I'll give you a quote a friend gave me when I kept toying with the idea of building a guitar.

"You can read all the books you want about how to ride a bike. They will tell you step by step what to do, and what not to do. They will tell you what to do if this happens, or that. They will explain the science behind gravity and inertia and how both will play into your experience. But until you get on that bike and try, you will never know how to ride a bike."

Basically, it tells me that you can try to prepare as much as you want to, but aren't going to learn anything until you try. I'll echo one of the earlier posts, you won't do everything the same as any one source. You will do what makes the most sense to you and what you think you are better suited to do. Take a piece here, take a piece there. It will come to you. And as you go, you'll figure out what you'll do different next time.

Lillian,   I'm excited for you, I am certain you know more now, then I knew
when I started. (I had no idea about how to get the little kerfs in the
fingerboard, or how to put the frets in the little kerfs!) What I did know
was that the two halfs of the top had to be glued together. So that's what
I did. When I had learned to do that and that job was done, I started to
feel sucessful. I started to feel more capable of cutting a rosette channel,
and, I learned to do that. Then braces, head block, tail block and so on.
eventually I got to frets and by then I had the confidence I needed to do
that too.

I still build that way. I find a sense of completion in each step. I think it
would be very difficult to build if the only sense of accomplishment I got
from building came when the strings went on!

Here's my advice;

1, Determine what has to be done next

2, See how Kathy does it, see how C&N did it, ask the forum how we do it

3, And then , Do it the way Lillian does it!   (repeat)


It will feel great, and the next step will seem less duanting.

You asked "who should I follow?"      I think you should follow Lillian!

Have a great New Year!!

long
Bob Long39080.9830555556

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"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.” -Heraclitus of Ephesus

And to add to what Hesh and Bob Long wrote, i'd say that your first guitar will contain many mistakes through which you WILL learn a great deal so don't be afraid of them mistakes, embrace them for what they will teach you, Lillian, GO FOR IT GIRL!

Hello Lillian,

I’m a newbe too, still on my first guitar. A “STEW-MAC” kit.

I’ve just read all the posts, and I can honestly say that I can’t add anything to this thread!

Except for this-

I really loved your NEW YEARS poem

Good luck Lillian, I get the feeling you’re going to do just fine!

Sincerely, Robert

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Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

Lillian,

I'm doing great. Thanks for asking! I've been going to work part-time, and survived an 8-hour drive over the Cascade mountains returning from a family Christmas gathering.

I like Bob's advice too. Maybe this is more of an inner journey than we know. Follow Lillian, which perhaps is what we all ended up doing. Just make the leap and do it. We'll catch you.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Lillian,
You have been give tons of advice on options of which books/DVDs/forums to follow. The all make good points and I'd agree with almost any of them. There is one thing that you should consider that would make the whole process much more manageable. Don't think about building a guitar!

Get a plan. Your 14 fret 0M plan sounds like it should work. Then, build the heel and tail blocks. That should be your project. Now that you have these neat heel and tail block, what are you going to do with them? I recommend making a mold next. There are several techniques on the web that describe how to do that. Oh, you've just finished another project.

Now, take some of the side wood you accumulated, thin it and bend it to the profile on your plan. Use a bender or do it by hand. I'd use a bender. Of course you'll have to make a bender and that is also another project. Cut the sides to length and glue them to the head an tail blocks inside your mold. Another project done. Take the mold with the sides camped into it to your significan other(s) and make them say "oooh" and "aaah". (This is a critical step and if you don't do it the whole project is in jeopardy).

Shape the width of your side so that they follow the profile of the back and sides. A small block plane will do this if you are patient. Another step done.

If you want to reinforce the sides, use bias tape and follow the instructions layed out several times on this forum. Another project done.

Next, buy a huge tub of binder clips from your local office mega store and glue in your kerfed linings. Another project done.

At this point you should be noticing a pattern. A guitar is a big project but it is made up of many small, well defined, steps. Each step is easily manageable and takes less than a single day even for someone who has never done it before.

I used Cumpiano & Natalson for my first build but made many changes because things like go-bar decks and radiused dishes were available and seem to me to reduce the risk. I also used the threaded inserts in the neck method; also because I thought it would reduce the risk. Reduction of risk was an important factor in all of my building. Of all the the various techniques described for doing any of the steps in building, one of them seem to be a little less risky. I always chose the less risky approach. You will most likely make different choices because you are a different person and what seems hard to me may seem easy to you.

As for Cumpiano, yes, it can be a bit of a snore but don't try to read the thing from cover to cover. Just skim it to find out what each chapter is about and then read that chapter right before you begin to do that step. Even if you aren't doing it the way that is described, you will find it helpful.

Making a guitar is a lot like baking. When you first start out you are very careful to measure everything exactly like the receipe says. After you know what really matters you learn that it will still be a cake even if you use a rounded teaspoon of baking powder instad of a level one.

Good luck and have fun and remember that the second time you do any of the steps it is a lot easier. So if you mess up a component, just make another.

Mike Mahar39084.4489699074

I like that commentary, Mike.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Mike, good post!